Conservative Friend

Dear Friends:

Some Bible verses seem to defy my understanding, and need to be set aside for sometimes years.

Luke 9:  57 And it came to pass, that, as they went in the way, a certain man said unto him, Lord, I will follow thee whithersoever thou goest.

 58 And Jesus said unto him, Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.  59 And he said unto another, Follow me. But he said, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.  

60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.  

61 And another also said, Lord, I will follow thee; but let me first go bid them farewell, which are at home at my house.  

62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

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This is a verse has troubled me a long time--and I placed it in the drawer marked “Figure Out Later”. I’ve heard ministers stumble through it and regret it. Their explanation usually being Jesus demanded sacrifice, at any cost--and they stop there. (Meanwhile I’d be picturing the man’s father left on a slab with no one to bury him. What happened to “honor thy father and thy mother???)

I think the interpretation of this verse is quite different now. Likely the young man’s father isn’t even dead, or even sick, and likely only around 40 years old. He doesn’t need burying. Could this son’s utterance be like: “Let me finish college first.” Or: “I’ll wait until my father doesn’t need me at our business.” Another man needed time to prepare his parents. In both cases we see that Jesus’ message was more on PROCRASTINATION, stalling, than it was on sacrifice. It was on making a decision, and not looking backward, and not letting good opportunities to do good to pass by. Not at all is it about throwing one’s parents under the bus as I had long thought!

Linda

Another later observation:  What would the young man be doing there if his father lay dying?

Lots of people have difficulties with Jesus when he was discussing commitment. I spoke with a lapsed Catholic recently who cited Luke 14:26:

 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

She said it seemed more like Reverend Jim Jones than God to her-- that Jesus was trying to separate people into a cult of personality.  And of course, the problem is the English translation. The Greek sentence uses a word that means "love less," not "hate," as we might use it today. Jesus wasn't telling people to "hate" their family, he was telling them that God required them to place Him first.

That's a very different thing.

Hi Linda,

Yes, I think this passage is about procrastination, rather than sacrifice.  Or about committment, maybe.

I don't think the guy's father is dead, or dying.  As you point out, the guy would probably be elsewhere if his dad was really dead/dying at that moment.

On the other hand, there are sacrifices that we make when we choose to follow a path that God has called us to.  Sometimes we do end up walking far from family, or sharing that unenviable condition of the Son of Man, having "nowhere to lay our heads"... no settled home....

And the procrastination, and the committment, and the sacrifice, are all bundled together sometimes.

I like your comparison to "Let me finish college first".  That seems very appropriate.

Hi, I'm Chip from Ga. and this is my first post here. I'm just recently learning about Quakerism and was led here by a link Kevin left on another site.

My sense of the verses Linda posted is this: To "follow" Jesus is not effort so much as surrender. Because He is the way, the truth and the life, He must become the life in us. If He said "I am the spaceship" we'd understand that struggling to fly behind the spaceship by an act of our own will would just wear us out without ever getting us to the end of the journey. We'd see that we need to allow the spaceship to carry us. So Jesus was saying that in surrendering to him we must surrender our worldly attachments whether to father, mother, college or whatever. Not necessarily to quit the things themselves but the attachments we have. The committment is to surrender. And at least for me, surrender comes and goes constantly. Peaks of surrender and valleys of self.

As for handling information that doesn't "seem right" or make sense, when I read the bible (or anything else where I'm hunting light) I hope to read in a passive way without a lot of thinking going on. I want it to be as though God is reading to me. Some things are immediately confirmed in my heart and some things just seem to fall flat. The things that fall flat, I just leave lying there and don't worry about them. I accept that these things may be untrue things, things that will be revealed to me later or things where I need other truth first to bring the new truth into focus. Later on the thing that seemed to fall flat may jump up and proclaim itself to me.

{to Kevin:)

Yes, I did a comparison using my "new" Hexplex containing the Greek,  Wyclif, Tyndale, Rhemes, Authorized Version, and all agree.

But what is really is the key, IMHO, is the story Jesus just finished Luke 14:16+....immediatelly following Jesus' story, of everyone backing out of attending the man's feast, Jesus makes it plain He doesn't want any rejections to his invitations..... 

About Luke 9: 57.

There is a word in the Aramaic/Syriac language it's "Gowra".

This is USUALLY a man that is related to woman that protects and cares for her.

Bur since in Biblical times, our Elders were deemed worthy of protection, they too fell under the Gowra's protective custody.

THAT'S what's really happening in this passage.

This (young?) man is his father's Gowra, or protector, Jesus (Yeshua) KNEW this, and He was saying that the Kingdom is more important then the social role that you have been "assigned" to play by being probably the eldest son to the man in question.

In the Greek, it's just not there, but in the Syriac, it becomes apparent what this story is REALLY about.

Customs, or The Kingdom!

Messianic Quaker

Linda at 12:02PM on Sep 23, 2009

Another later observation:  What would the young man be doing there if his father lay dying?

Linda and Friends,

Jesus wept over Lazarus and raised him from the dead; took time to visit and  dine with friends; healed; raised up the widow Nain's son and ate so many

luxurious meals some accused him of being a glutton and a drunk, etc.. .  So,

maybe Jesus was telling everyday people, who take care of families, visit relatives and friends and who sit in good positions in their community that

their ministry is designed to be:  At home, with family, in civic office, in college,

at work and at play, visiting relatives, at community events, with friends, charity work, etc... .  Maybe, looking back was them wanting to tag along with Jesus and his team instead of do their own ministry.   Maybe, Jesus was saying to each of them and to some of us that the kingdom of God is among thee, right where thee are, just as thee are doing and where thee go along thy journey.  

Tim